Author Topic: EPHolistic Large/Giant Breed Puppy Food -vs.- PRECISE Plus Canine Adult Formula  (Read 822 times)

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Offline Jayme

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Wow, talk about confusion... :confused:

The GDLady is no longer recommending EP, she now endorses the PRECISE line.  With regards to puppy food, I have been trying for the last 40 minutes to make comparisons between the two brands. **Note: for puppies, the GDLady recommends, per her website, they be fed PRECISE Plus Canine Adult Formula**

I am a little disturbed when I read the new formula changes for EPHolistic with regards to glucosamine.  I have copied and pasted from the EP website the "changes" that have been made regarding the ingredients:

Changes that have been made to the Dry Dog formulas:
1) Removed Added Salt from Adult Recipes
   - Added Salt is not necessary for the animal's overall well-being and is perceived as a negative by holistic consumers
   - Salt remains in the Puppy recipes to meet AAFCO growth requirements
2) Removed Inositol from all recipes
   - With limited data for humans and no data for animals on the efficacy of this ingredient, it was removed.
3) Bacillus coagulins removed
   - Proven to not survive during manufacturing so WellPet removed it and increased the other Bacillus micro-organisms
4) Removed Glucosamine from Large and Small Breed Puppy Recipes
   - Glucosamine was removed from the above diets to meet AAFCO claims. Additionally, it is believed that puppies do not need supplemental Glucosamine during their growth stage.



Does anyone have any thoughts about these changes?  Will those of you feeding EPHolistic Giant Breed Puppy be switching to something else because of these changes?
What are your thoughts on the new PRECISE Plus Canine Adult formula?

I *tried* using the Food Rating guide to rate the PRECISE Plus Canine Adult Formula and am not sure I did it right...would someone be kind enough to rate it and tell me what you got? :confused2:

I am very interested in everyone's thoughts!

Thank you!

~Jayme


Hooch (Deepwood Acres, Amber x Diesel)
Canine Good Citizen (CGC)
Certified Therapy Dog (TDInc.)
American Red Cross Animal Therapist (ARCAAT)

Offline sjpham01

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we feed the EP Large and Giant Breed puppy formula, the woman at the feed store recommend the regular EP puppy formula as opposed to the holistic, she said the 'regular' puppy formula has been tested for years and has been proven successful.......not that I am 'all knowing' but....Ruby seems to be doing well on it, and Brick is eating it also, haven't seen any problems....prior to us getting Ruby, Brick was on the EP Holistic Lamb & Rice......don't plan on changing for awhile......
Ruby-9/11/09--CGC, TDI--Orion Farms, Merlin & Pandora
Brick-9/03/05--Rottie

Offline fisher_man_matt

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I've had Gerdy on Eagle Pack L&GBP since I got her based on the GDLady's recommendations and she's been doing great.  I haven't ran into the new "formula" bags yet but will change if she starts having issues.
Matt in Concord, NC
Gertrude
Flying W Farms
KACI / MALACHI
02-01-2009

Offline jeffandterri

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The first bag of food that we fed Max and Bailey was the old style bag. All others have been the new formulation. Both pups seem to be doing very well on this food.
Terri and pups (Fort Mill, SC)
RIP Bailey - 12/7/1998 - 7/20/2013 - til we see her again cause ALL pups go to heaven :)
Maximus - Cali x Merlin - Orion Farms - 9/9/2009


Offline dannette

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Keely has been on EPLPB holistic (GDL website recommendations) since we got her, have gotten first bag of new formula, no issues. Did try a small bag of Precise and she had loose poops. 
We will be sticking with EP.
Keely 1/11/09
Dixie Ann x Ben Hershey
FWF

Keaghan 11/6/11
Paxton x Morgan
Deepwood Acres

Offline Dorely

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Thanks for the breakdown of ingredient removal and reasoning behind it Jayme.  I still have Dante on EPH Lg & Giant Puppy. I've had him on it since he came home and haven't had any problems. I had to buy the "new look/formula" bag once but haven't had to again. He didn't have any problems...

Now, if Glucosamine  isn't needed for puppy growth according to them - why does the GDL recommend it w/her Blackwatch Program? The Liquid Health 5000 that she recommends is a glucosamine supplement. She recommends that you start your pup w/that at 4 months and follow the rest of the program.

Im of no help because i know nothing about Precise and now i have more questions regarding EPH. I know there is such a thing as "too much glucosamine" - cataracts and such - icky! I guess i'm going to do some more reading now.

-- Dorely
*Dante*
05/10/2009
Flying W Farms
Lady Marsha x Ben Sara

Offline sjpham01

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  • Ruby and Holly--new Florence, PA
I believe that EP Large and Giant Breed puppy has the glucosamine...I briefly looked at the ingredients and I think it is 41mg/cup....mind now this is the regular Eagle Pack, NOT the Holistic....
Ruby-9/11/09--CGC, TDI--Orion Farms, Merlin & Pandora
Brick-9/03/05--Rottie

Offline Jayme

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Thanks for the breakdown of ingredient removal and reasoning behind it Jayme.  I still have Dante on EPH Lg & Giant Puppy. I've had him on it since he came home and haven't had any problems. I had to buy the "new look/formula" bag once but haven't had to again. He didn't have any problems...

Now, if Glucosamine  isn't needed for puppy growth according to them - why does the GDL recommend it w/her Blackwatch Program? The Liquid Health 5000 that she recommends is a glucosamine supplement. She recommends that you start your pup w/that at 4 months and follow the rest of the program.

Im of no help because i know nothing about Precise and now i have more questions regarding EPH. I know there is such a thing as "too much glucosamine" - cataracts and such - icky! I guess i'm going to do some more reading now.

-- Dorely
Dorely-  I agree with what you mentioned (thought maybe I was going crazy) with regards to the glucosamine.  If it is needed and recommended, why did they remove it? Why remove it from the Holistic, but not the Super Premium?
The entire food issue seems so confusing.  You find something your puppy likes, but have to pay ultra close attention to the manufacturing process, because it could be changed at a drop of the hat.
The GDL is "endorsing" Precise and will continue to do so until Golden Eagle comes out in April 2010--then according to her website, she will more than likely endorse both. Golden Eagle is supposed to be the exact replica of EPH, but manufactured to a higher standard by a smaller company.  Exact same product, just she feels it will be of better quality because the company producing it smaller and possible policed more to ensure the higher standards that EPH had until the owner/creator died and it was bought out by Wellness.
Hooch (Deepwood Acres, Amber x Diesel)
Canine Good Citizen (CGC)
Certified Therapy Dog (TDInc.)
American Red Cross Animal Therapist (ARCAAT)

Offline Wizard

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Merlin was on Eagle Pack Holistic and was doing well. (He has had several allergy type symptoms.  This food was our answer to his problems.) HOWEVER, the new bags arrived, and Merlin skins issues flared up again.  We took him off and put him on Solid Gold Wolf King and he is doing great again.  You can even tell by his smell. He does not get anything else, therefore the new bag of EP Holistic was the only variable that changed.

Offline Jayme

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Merlin was on Eagle Pack Holistic and was doing well. (He has had several allergy type symptoms.  This food was our answer to his problems.) HOWEVER, the new bags arrived, and Merlin skins issues flared up again.  We took him off and put him on Solid Gold Wolf King and he is doing great again.  You can even tell by his smell. He does not get anything else, therefore the new bag of EP Holistic was the only variable that changed.
Wizard--(forgive me, I do not know your name)...What do you think it was about the new bags? The website did not say they (EP) added anything, only that they took away. This has me worried. What is the difference between the formulations of EPH and Solid Gold Wolf King?
Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate any info you have!

~Jayme
Hooch (Deepwood Acres, Amber x Diesel)
Canine Good Citizen (CGC)
Certified Therapy Dog (TDInc.)
American Red Cross Animal Therapist (ARCAAT)

Offline jeffandterri

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Merlin was on Eagle Pack Holistic and was doing well. (He has had several allergy type symptoms.  This food was our answer to his problems.) HOWEVER, the new bags arrived, and Merlin skins issues flared up again.  We took him off and put him on Solid Gold Wolf King and he is doing great again.  You can even tell by his smell. He does not get anything else, therefore the new bag of EP Holistic was the only variable that changed.

It is interesting that you said that. What did the skin problems look like. Max has a rash under his front arms. All I can think of is food but I don't want to stumble around blindly if it isn't the cause. He is been on EPH since we got him. The first bag was old style, all others have been new style. The rash started within the last 2 weeks and Benadryl seems to keep it in check. I just don't want to medicate him his entire life so I am trying to determine the cause/fix for it.
Terri and pups (Fort Mill, SC)
RIP Bailey - 12/7/1998 - 7/20/2013 - til we see her again cause ALL pups go to heaven :)
Maximus - Cali x Merlin - Orion Farms - 9/9/2009


Offline cafemiel

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I originally switched Ashie to Eagle Pack LBP due to suspected allergies, yeast infections, itchy skin, UTIs, etc.  and she's done great.  She's been on the new Holistic for 3 50-lb bags now (don't you love measuring time in bags of dogfood instead of days or months?  :snicker: )  and she's had no adverse affects.  She just had a vet visit and he was impressed with how healthy she is.  Guess it really just comes down to how each individual dog reacts.

Offline dannette

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  Guess it really just comes down to how each individual dog reacts.

I agree!  :puppy:
Keely 1/11/09
Dixie Ann x Ben Hershey
FWF

Keaghan 11/6/11
Paxton x Morgan
Deepwood Acres

Offline LazyM

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Hi Everyone,

I have been feeding and endorsing EPLB (super premium) for years, and have been very happy with it.  When I was first notified of the change in the packaging of EP, I contacted the company via phone to ask two specific questions.
1.  Will you be adding or dropping any ingredients, and if so, when will the change take place?
2.  Will you be changing the glucosamine and other supplements in any way, such as amounts, different distributors, etc?

I was assured by the customer service rep that NOTHING would change except the packaging.  (I wish I had this in print.) They even went on to say that they have had such great success with this food, especially the giant breed puppy food, that they would not change anything. 

Imagine my distress when the GDL, a woman who helped formulate and test this product, not only pulls her endorsement but states irreconcilable philosophical differences as her reason.  RED FLAG NUMBER ONE.

Imagine my further distress when I saw for myself that they had in fact changed  ingredients.  I guess the new company has no issues with lying to their customers.  RED FLAG NUMBER TWO.

Finally, imagine my distress when I saw that they decreased the size of the bag and increased the cost.  RED FLAG NUMBER THREE.

My dogs and pups have all done fantastic on EPLGB super premium puppy food, and I am sad to have to look for another food.  However, I cannot trust a company who will lie to it's customers, and then charge them more for less.  I don't know about anyone else, but that's not how I do business. 

Offline Jayme

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Hi Everyone,

I have been feeding and endorsing EPLB (super premium) for years, and have been very happy with it.  When I was first notified of the change in the packaging of EP, I contacted the company via phone to ask two specific questions.
1.  Will you be adding or dropping any ingredients, and if so, when will the change take place?
2.  Will you be changing the glucosamine and other supplements in any way, such as amounts, different distributors, etc?

I was assured by the customer service rep that NOTHING would change except the packaging.  (I wish I had this in print.) They even went on to say that they have had such great success with this food, especially the giant breed puppy food, that they would not change anything. 

Imagine my distress when the GDL, a woman who helped formulate and test this product, not only pulls her endorsement but states irreconcilable philosophical differences as her reason.  RED FLAG NUMBER ONE.

Imagine my further distress when I saw for myself that they had in fact changed  ingredients.  I guess the new company has no issues with lying to their customers.  RED FLAG NUMBER TWO.

Finally, imagine my distress when I saw that they decreased the size of the bag and increased the cost.  RED FLAG NUMBER THREE.

My dogs and pups have all done fantastic on EPLGB super premium puppy food, and I am sad to have to look for another food.  However, I cannot trust a company who will lie to it's customers, and then charge them more for less.  I don't know about anyone else, but that's not how I do business. 
Kerry,
I appreciate your response to my post, as my line of thinking is the same as yours.  Could I ask you which food you are leaning towards using in the future for your puppies and dogs?

~Jayme
Hooch (Deepwood Acres, Amber x Diesel)
Canine Good Citizen (CGC)
Certified Therapy Dog (TDInc.)
American Red Cross Animal Therapist (ARCAAT)

Offline Wizard

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It is interesting that you said that. What did the skin problems look like. Max has a rash under his front arms. All I can think of is food but I don't want to stumble around blindly if it isn't the cause. He is been on EPH since we got him. The first bag was old style, all others have been new style. The rash started within the last 2 weeks and Benadryl seems to keep it in check. I just don't want to medicate him his entire life so I am trying to determine the cause/fix for it.
[/quote]
Merlin originally did not have any problems as a pup. (He was on Solid Gold Wolf Cub (Bison and salmon). However, he had a considerable amount of gas and was quite unpleasant.  Anyway, we switched to Dick Van Pattan, and others and he continued to have skin issues. (ACNE under chin and he would get lumps from the inside out on different areas of his body.  He also had ear infections and he emitted an odor. We did the detox, enzymes, etc from the GDL and got it under control. (Also, antibiotics and 8 Benadryl a day.)  I am happy to report since I put him back on Solid Gold, bison and salmon, he is doing great!  No Benadryl, right now.  (I do give him a couple of tablespoons of non-fat yogurt twice daily.)

Offline LazyM

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I have to admit that since I have 8 bags of the old stuff, this will have to wait until next week for my full attention.  I will post what I discover. 

 

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